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Posted by1 month ago
Silver

I got a phone call from my daughter's school and my life has turned upside down.

CW; pedophila, grooming, suicide, online harassment/stalking

Last update (hopefully): I am so sorry for not replying to all of your helpful and kind comments. All of this has been overwhelming for my whole family as you can imagine. Things are looking brighter.

My daughter has been in a part time inpatient program and she's been enjoying it and has found it extremely helpful. She is also working with a therapist who has put a lot of effort into our situation and is now educated on ths fandom anti stuff. If I'm being honest, I don't believe my own therapist would do this much for me. I'm enterally greatful for him.

Where I feel still I might have failed here, he informed me he believes my daughter is most likely autistic as well. My other daughter is almost polar opposite to her and I feel like I've been incredibly ignorant. Not to mention, I don't think I would have done differently the night everything happened, however, I feel as though I may have jumped the gun in believing she would self harm. I did jump in the gun in that aspect, however, with how erratic she was, I most certainly did make the right choice taking her to patient care.

My daughter is slowly but surely coming to terms with everything that has happened. She's made way faster progress then I expected. In all honesty, I didn't know what to expect and as strong as my daughter is, I assumed the worst but she's been as strong as she always has. She's made a lot of friends at the program she's in and has been able to connect their experiences to her own, especially a girl who suffered from extremely intense religious abuse. I've met her a few times and I don't feel like anyone understands how much I want to thank her.

She's able now to admit the woman who was grooming her was in the wrong and is expressing grief because of what happened regarding her classmate. That's been the hardest part for us in regards to her. We've seen nothing but progress and she feels incredibly bad about how she treated her classmate but even though she's able to emotionally regulate again, there's been a lot of long nights, crying, and her asking how she can make up for what she's done. We really don't have the answers at times.

This may seem silly to some of you, but I think any parent who's been in a similar situation may understand how much this meant to me-

The staff at my rehabilitation program have been incredibly talkative with me in a way I feel doesn't disrespect my daughter or myself. When I went through what I had, my counselor at the time was not much help at all. With everyone at my daughter's care program, if they mentioned something after the day, my daughter will ask if they mentioned it to me.

My daughter had told me after we picked her up yesterday she felt horrible about discussing this sort of thing with her sister after the topic of shame around getting your siblings involved in what you had been through was talked about in group. She had told her group everything and her counselor had suggested my daughters draw together.

Last night they did. Her sister had, within ten minutes, shown her all the sketchbooks she has that are incredibly detailed. She doesn't care much about drawing characters from shows and makes her own, she's created her own little universe. She's very talented. My eldest told her how amazing her story was coming along and drew some of her characters for her. I teared up a lot. Everything felt normal, if not better, for a couple hours. My daughter was so kind to her sister, it was a really amazing. Even our youngest joined in for bit but got bored after awhile, lol. My eldest was still paying full attention, though.

There was moment where her sister had shown characters she had created who were married and one had a similar maiden name to their spouses (My daughter uses very specific names she thinks sounds pretty for her characters. I don't feel comfortable sharing exactly how in case this is something she'd like to write a book for, a show, etc in the future. But they seem very thematic in a way with the endings of alot of them sounding a bit similar.) and I got extremely nervous but my daughter apsolutely did not say a word and said she thought they were cute. I can't even tell you how happy I felt.

My eldest also asked me for a sketchbook, she was very impressed with the drawing she was able to make using my youngest supplies and told me she felt drawing her feelings would be helpful. I don't want anyone to think I'm rewarding her for bad behavior. I feel her getting her something that she enjoys that someone who was abusing her deeply discouraged even though it's something thats encouraged for people to do, even not in her situation who have been through abuse, will be incredibly healing. I ordered her nice markers, a sketchbook, etc. I think vent art is key here.Her drawings were beautiful and I hope to encourage her passion and see her heal through it.

I'm hoping eventually she will be able to join the art therapy sessions at her part time care program. I think it would be very cathartic for her. I'm not sure if she's aware they have it but they do not allow her to participate as of now, understandably. They told me once things improve for a couple months (or possibly sooner) she'll be more than welcome to join and their main concern is her judging others works.

Her classmate's mother has been incredible to us and she considers me a friend at this point, which is beyond me. Her kindness and ability to stay calm in these types of situations is very incredible. I don't make a lot of new friends as I'm very busy but I'm very happy I can consider her one. She's been talking to me almost daily, once we got passed the discomfort, we've gotten very close.

The legal update is what I'm sure everyone is waiting for. I contacted my local FBI branch myself with Classmate's mom after the police had not gotten ahold of us in over a week. We did call them afterwards and they informed us the case was still open. All that aside, the right people ended up having access to our children's accounts, we ended up getting the woman's identity in a week. I know everyone wants information shared here but I'd much rather have her in jail for years than shamed online and have pizza hut delivery sent to her house.

I will give an update if nothing comes of this and she gets a slap on the wrist but I highly doubt it. According to my daughter on the night this began, the woman "sends this stuff to lots of people my age". I was assured the other victims will be contacted. They told me they've seen this type of thing with a case last year.

They told us there's been case that don't involve the fandom stuff they've delt with where groomers will try to be the only "safe adult" and will send minors things to "report" while they themselves are already sex offenders. The grooming tactic of trying to convince a child everyone around them is a groomer for a very arbitrary reason and they are safe is becoming incredibly common now a days. And I urge parents: if you have a small age gap with your spouse, to please be wary of your child starts acting strange about it. If you're an artist and they act very off about certain things you create that are child friendly, be concerned. If you're child calls anything that is normal "creepy" or "predatory" despite it being normal, take their phone. My child showed no warning signs but I can't imagine how parents think their kids are just going through a phase and care about something weird or just dismiss it as a "Gen Z thing" but I am not the only one who's been through this.

If I'm being honest, the only warning sign I saw in hindsight was my middle child not showing me her sketchbook as much. As someone who enjoys painting myself (I began as an adult), I'd never let anyone see my unfinished work, I think alot of people here who have a hobby or profession that requires pre-planning will understand. It was something I instantly began respecting (and still will) as showing unfinished work to others can be very awkward. All it takes is a conversation. With my eldest, I'm hoping her art can become her way of coping.

I've seen some comments on here of other parents being worried, and I don't want to make you all over-paranoid. Please just tell them adults sending them pornography of any kind is unacceptable, regardless of the purpose. Tell them THEY are children and are under no obligation to "protect children" as they are minors themselves and any adult who expects them to help them fight predators IS a predator themseleves. It's an adult job to protect them. In my own research I've seen countless screenshots of children making posts saying "My parents have a small age gap, ew, I can't trust them anymore" and I'm left here terrified, wondering how many of them have been groomed by someone trying to turn them against their parents.

Once again, thank you all for your help and kindness. I figured out this subreddit uses a points system and I'm sorry I missed out on all of getting a point because you all truly deserve one.

I'm using a throwaway because my sister does have me added on here and I feel as though this is my daughter's story to tell if she wishes, not mine; however I am at a complete loss of what to do and I need some advice. I just want to protect our privacy.

I (43F) received a phone call from my eldest daughter's (14) school this morning explaining she was harassing and saying some very accusatory things about another student. She was being suspended and that I needed to speak with them. This was the first time she had ever been in trouble to the point where the principal was involved. I've gotten talks about her being loud in class and that sort of thing by her teachers but nothing like this.

When I arrived, my child was hysterical, screaming about how (This girl, who my daughter was previously friends with and still attends some classes with) is a pedophile and that she should not be the one in trouble. I was confused and slightly panicking, when you hear the words "pedophile" come out of your child's mouth while they're sobbing, it's extremely concerning, regardless of the situation.

I instantly feared that possibly something had happened to my youngest child (9M) considering this girl had hung out at our house a few times when her and my daughter were friends but she was too upset to explain what was happening, it was just crying and mumbling.

After I had tried my best to calm her down, the school's counselor had me and my daughter separated and I was joined by my daughter's classmate's mom and the principal. They had explained to me that my daughter had been harassing and borderline stalking her classmate since they stopped hanging out as much. She had been referring to her as a "pedophile" for "shipping" these animated characters that were 3 years apart in age.

It had now escalated to real life because her classmate was hospitalized for a suicide attempt. Her mother had figured out what was going on, had went to the school today with images of the messages, and posts my daughter was making about her, which also included death threats and suicide encouragement. When my child was called to the office, she began loudly screaming the same sentiments as she posted, causing a massive scene and causing the mother to decide on switching schools.

I was incredibly disturbed, the other girl’s mother was visibly upset but held it together incredibly well. She had full right to scream at me or press charges but didn't. I was almost more hostile and defensive in the beginning than she was because I feared for my son. She told me she knew I had no clue what was going on and that she simply wants her child to feel safe again. That I need to use the time she's suspended to get her help. I agree. I was at a loss for words but in hindsight, I don't understand how she didn't go full mama-bear on me like I would have.

The drive home is when things started to turn even more when it came to my daughter's behavior. She had asked for her cellphone back. And I told her, flat out, no. She, again, was now in hysterics like I had never seen from her until earlier today. She kept begging me for it and saying she did nothing wrong. I

I made us some lunch to try to calm the situation down. I wanted to approach it calmly.

I asked her why she did this and once again told me, being completely serious, "Because (Said girl) is a pedophile". I asked why she felt that way, and straight faced, once again, told me exactly what the principal did. She believed the girl she had been harassing should "Be put in prison" and was a pedophile because she enjoyed art of these characters together depicted as a couple but the police won't do anything so she needed to take it into her own hands.

I asked her if she believes these characters exist. She said no, but had gone on a very long rant about how people drawing art of them "normalizes pedophila" (These characters I believe are 18 and 21) and went into very bizarre detail about different fetishes and "ships" that upset her.

At this point, I was even more worried. I fully understand the internet is a very sexual place but the type of things she was talking about she would have to had to seek out herself or had them discussed with her. I instantly started to worry if something had happened to her and this was her way of coping. It's so out of character for her, it's disturbing.

We are not a "sex negative" household and none of I or my husband's family is either. The topic is something we've taken very great care with to avoid anything bad happening to our children or them feeling shame in adulthood.

I've done everything you're supposed to. I taught my children the proper names for their body parts when they were young, told them if anyone is touching them in their "personal square" (chest to knees) or says things that make them uncomfortable to inform me or their father right away, and explained consent in a way a child would understand. "If you don't want a hug, that's okay. say no and they should respect that." "If someone says no to playing a game with you, you don't force them to play."

When my girl's started puberty I explained that periods, having "feelings", and doing things about those feelings privately is okay and normal. I also explained that once they gets older, if they want to experiment with peers that I wouldn't judge them for it and explained the importance of protection, only doing things if you feel ready, etc.

She got her first smartphone two years ago. I used parental controls and knew which apps she used. When I bought her current one Christmas of last year, I didn't bother to use parental controls when she received it as I had taught her internet safety from an incredibly early age and I believed considering she's turning 15 soon and because of how responsible she had always been when it came to the internet I felt she could be handle it.

I also bought her a Chromebook for school when the pandemic started. She only used it for schoolwork really. Not on it alot. I never tried to intrude on her private conversations with friends, however, I've followed her on Instagram and Facebook. She had grown distant with me for the past year or so and I just assumed it was teenager stuff.

She used to tell me absolutely anything and everything and I was always there to listen the best I could. She's been in therapy since age 12 also because of her depression and she told me it's very helpful for her so I wasn't too worried and her symptoms seemed to lessen. All teenager's get annoyed by their parents at some point and I felt giving her space was important but now alarm bells were going off.

I politely told her we could discuss this later and that I need time to think. She once again asked for her phone back, I declined and asked her to give me her Chromebook for the time being. She, once again, got extremely upset with me and stormed off to her room. I followed and grabbed her Chromebook. She accused me of making her depression worse because she can't talk to her friends now, which is something she's never accused me of and made me feel incredibly guilty but my gut told me absolutely not to return her electronics, I didn't want her doing anything harmful to that girl and I was extremely suspicious by this point.

I told her I would discuss things with her father, that we both need time to cool off, and that I might give them back to her later. I told her to try journaling to vent. She slammed the door. Least of my worries, but once again, not like her.

I felt so bad doing this but I'm incredibly grateful I did. I checked her phone. She has my phone password and I have hers. There was mutual trust that neither of us would snoop or intrude on each other's privacy, it was mostly for emergencies, but at this point I felt no other option. This was an emergency. What I found made this entire situation even worse and I'm getting extremely teary eyed typing this out.

I found out through the principal a lot of this had happened on Twitter, which I wasn't aware she had before then. Her whole account was absolutely frightening to look at. She had her first name, birthday, and age public which doesn't sound like a huge deal at first glance but as I scrolled through her posts I saw Quote Tweets of drawings, some innocent and alot of porn, she made thousands of them, telling these people to die, calling them pedophiles, groomers, disgusting, etc. Similar sentiments she was making towards her former friend.

I was horrified, none her age should be reposting content like that or be involved in communities like that, especially while sharing private information. Not to mention, the obsessive harassment. Some of the art I found rather disturbing myself but these people have 18+ in bios for a reason.

Some of the worst in regards to harassment I saw had to do with this game she plays called "Cookie Run" in which she would reply, calling people (Some being clearly younger than her) horrible names for drawing GingerBread cookies holding hands because she had decided one of the cookies was a minor and another was an adult or that they were related. See what I'm getting at? She almost seems to have a fixation on incest and pedophila and has been seeing it in everything for like the past five months. Dear Lord, I'm scared.

It gets worse, I ended up going through her direct messages and saw she gave a lot of people her Discord, which I knew she had and saw her using it while playing Minecraft with her friend's many times.

I checked out the app and she was in this server that, from what I gather, is run by someone claiming to be a 24 year old woman. She would frequently discuss the type of things my daughter was saying, she also was sending links to pornography posted to twitter. Mostly animated, some being of real women who she claimed were "minor coded" (Which is a term I still don't fully understand but my daughter was using over and over again) and that they should not be allowed to be sexually active.

She would encourage the server, that, from what I saw, was almost entirely made up of minors to go harass those people. Even in some cases try to find out their personal information which she claimed she was "Sending to law enforcement" but in a sarcastic way gave them the go-ahead to post it publicly. I think you should have an idea of why I am so disturbed now.

I found pictures my child took at school of the girl I mentioned as well, dozens of them. They'd all make fun of her which would go from typical teenage bullying to extreme threats of violence and making comments about how she is "probably molesting her sister." The adult in the server even asked for more photos of her and told my daughter violent acts she should do to her The way this woman typed almost made them sound like fantasies. Very disturbing.

She's seen my daughter's face and many of the other minors, some even younger than my daughters because they would do "Face reveals" . I tried to reverse search the image of the woman and found absolutely nothing, so I assume it's a real image. She also would discuss sexual things with my daughter and these other children.

They'd talk about the "Non harmful" fetishes they have. Her sending them porn is damming enough and I'm furious but the other ways she'd speak with them was frightening, asking about their sexual preferences, discussing fetishes, and framing herself as a "Safe adult" who can be trusted and act as if her sending pornographic images to children is fine because they're helping fight "pedophiles", Who, from what I saw, mostly just seem like normal, I'll be it, some more adventurous then others, adult's. And some are just kids having fun and being creative, making innocent drawings.

I'm not giving my daughter anything back as I'm heading to the police station tomorrow with all her electronics and filing a report. I was smart enough to not delete or report any of the messages as I want this woman to seek jail time. I'm calling her classmate's mother to join me as this concerns her child as well. My husband is just as enraged as I am. He was much more stern with her than me. She freaked out on us completely, told us that the woman she was speaking with wasn't being creepy towards her.

She even ended up calling her father a "Pedophile enabler" for saying an adult should not be sending her porn or talking to her like that. Which, by the way, is also what this Discord group referred to anyone who was "clean" enough for their standards but disagreed with them for obvious reasons.

For God's sake, I feel like my child has been indoctrinated into some weird "anti pedophila" cult. Her behavior has completely changed over the span of two hours, I found out she tried pushing a classmate into suicide over drawings of cartoon characters kissing, and has been being groomed for months. I feel like I'm in a nightmare and fever dream at the same time.

I don't even know what to do in regards to my daughter yet. I haven't told her I'm filing a police report yet and she's been almost in a manic state all night. The rest of my children are terrified.

My other daughter (13) who has autism and a special interest in art, has told me that her sister has told her about some of this stuff before and she really didn't understand it but said she was really shy about showing her sister any of her drawings in case she got mad because she didn't know "What the rules were".

My son hopefully knows nothing but he's shaken up because of all the screaming. My husband has taken them to McDonald's and their grandparent's house for the night. They were kind enough to take them in this late and when I explained our eldest was having a mental health related emergency, she didn't question me further which I appreciate.

I'm home with my daughter. She ended up asking for a hug at one point. Her moods are swinging very rapidly. I don't know if she'll be able to sleep tonight. I probably wouldn't be able to anyways.

I feel like my whole life has been turned upside down because of this disgusting woman grooming my baby into whatever disgusting, evil, little group she's running. My daughter is not completely innocent and I'm disgusted and disappointed by her behavior but how can I not blame this woman for slowly encouraging it for a year? And quite frankly, sexually grooming her?

I'm sure I'm at fault here to some degree but my daughter has never acted this way, she's not a violent person, Her sister and her were very close as well. She's always been a gentle soul. The only time she'd ever raise her voice was to protect her sister when she'd be bullied. The only significant bad thing to happen during her childhood was when her grandfather passed away when she was 8. She was quite sad about it for a couple months, but nothing else traumatizing.

Aside from that, we've been a decently well off, loving, family and I'm always there and have the time to give them as much attention as they've needed over the years, at least I hope so.

I thought I taught her how to avoid predators like this. I thought I went above and beyond. I'm a victim of pedophila myself so I made sure to be extra careful in teaching them how to keep themselves safe. I feel like a failure as a mother. I don't know who to turn to.

Where did I go wrong and What else should I do? I've been debating on taking her to the hospital but she's in the living room writing as of right now. This is the calmest she's been in hours but I'm worried for her safety, I almost don't want to leave her alone because of how erratic she's been acting tonight.

She's calmed down about her phone, I think her main concern was us seeing the messages. Since we already have, now it's a mix between her crying because she feels her life is ruined (Which she said while she hugged me and I think her way of saying "I know that woman was in the wrong'') And her screaming at us for being "Pedophile enablers"

And she's made comments that she's going to call the police on us for "holding her hostage" after we locked up all the sharp objects in the house inside the basement kitchen. She's not locked in a room, she's just not allowed in the extra little kitchen nook downstairs, there's barely used and only has sodas in it right now.

She's never self harmed before but I quite frankly don't know what to expect. Any feedback or advice would be appreciated.

Update:

I can't put into words how much I appreciate all of your kind words and amazing advice I've received. I will try to reply to everyone very soon.

I have come to the conclusion after calming down a bit that my daughter fully feels as though she's doing a good thing. I planned on seeking more help for her regradless but after night I'm truly realizing how mentally ill she has become, I still can't pin point a reason but I don't really need to, my job is to find her someone who can.

She has woke up and the three of us have agreed we are going to the emergency room. I've done a bit of research and from what I've found out, they cannot take her anywhere without my consent, which was my main concern. I use Reddit a fair bit and have seen the stories so I think I think you understand my hesitation when it comes to mental health care facilities for young people.

The other girl involved in this's father works odd hours and he touched bases with me. We plan on gathering evidence (As some of the death threats were sent by the woman grooming my child to there's) and reporting everything to local police and sending all the info we can collect to that CyberTip website. I'm hoping to find more places to report this too as well.

I've also been trying to do research in my spare time to figure more out about what's been going on. I'm getting old, never was big into fan bases when I was teen myself but it seems like my child and the other girl involved are not the only one's who been through this sort of situation, grooming and harassment alike. It's heartbreaking to hear, I would not wish this on anybody.

If the emergency room can't do much, I plan on contacting a children and families service. She clearly does not trust her therapist and as some of you have said "This is above Reddit pay grade" I believe this is above her therapist's as well.

I would like to apologize to everyone for coming on here. I've come to Reddit for other, more mild, parenting advice and from my own experience as a victim, it being discussed with my entire family was very hard on me. I had no where else to go and you all went above and beyond with help.

Once again, I appreciate everything and I will be replying soon. I hope you all have a lovely day or night.

Update 2;

It's been a long day but I feel like we've made a lot of head way. Thanks to alot of your advice, I feel like we've made a lot of progress.

We ended up leaving the emergency room. The receptionist had asked us when we tried checking if she was suicidal or trying to harm herself or others. At the moment, she was not. I tried to my best to explain the situation and they essentially told us we'd be needing to wait awhile or we should contact a primary doctor or therapist.

While we waited for almost an hour, I had read through alot of the mix of comments and hearing a lot of you guy's traumatic experiences, which, I can't tell you all how sorry I am you had to experience that, I made the decision to leave and we went to a Patient Care center instead.

Someone had commented a very helpful link in regards to speaking with a "brainwashed person" and it improved my husband and I's communication extremely. My daughter was beginning to express feelings of confusion in regards to feelings about all of this in general. She agreed she needs medical attention as she felt almost as if she was out of control last night and described herself as feeling miserable.

She also did end up apologizing to us and told us that "it isn't our fault we don't understand." I do view this as a form of progress on some level.

Patient Care was a life saver. I was alot more clear headed and I believe I might have explained myself to the staff much better. We had to wait an extremely long time because they wanted my daughter and I to meet up with a doctor on staff who had some training in phycology. I was only able to speak with the doctor privately for around five minutes and I tried to explain everything that was going on and everything I learned.

She had told me she's never heard her of the whole "anti" related stuff but did reassure me I was not over reacting and gave me many many resources on part time care facilities, some of which specialize in sexual abuse and cult like abuse, she informed me one of them is also very accommodating in regards to patients dealing with psychotic episodes.

My daughter joined us again and she then asked if I was reporting. My daughter looked incredibly scared and mad when I said yes but her facial expression almost looked like one of relief after awhile. She hasn't brought it up since.

Where I might have messed up was, I kept her phone on, and made sure it was charged. By the time morning came, everyone seemed suspicious on that sever and the woman seemed rather frantic about removing messages and my daughter's account from the server. I, pretending to be my daughter, had sent a reply saying I just wasnt in the mood in the talk right now and that I got grounded. They bought it. I'm only worried if that will mess up any investigation or not.

A police officer showed up and we all gave testimonies. My daughter, wasn't very talkative I assume. The officer had told me this will likely go to a federal level after I had shown him some of the messages. I was told they would contact me farther and asked for her classmate's information as well to take the their testimonies. Luckily, they had saved a large chuck of the harassment she had received had been screen shot. I had called ahead of time to inform them and her mother said she'd be gathering information.

The police and staff at Patient Care suggested getting a case worker for our daughter and I feel it's the best option. I'm not sure if any blow ups like that will continue and I don't want my other children to have to go through that again.

We all ended up visiting my in laws. The kids have had sleepovers there many times so they weren't too startled but were very happy to see their sister was okay and her grandparents were as well.

I had a bit of a talk with my younger daughter because I wanted to make sure she wasn't impacted too poorly by things her sister had told her, luckily she wasn't. I assured her, there are no rules to her creativity as long as she keeps everything she posts PG, at least until she's older, which made her laugh and call me gross. First time I've smiled since this all began.

My daughter, husband, and I are currently at home and I'm making dinner. My husband searched her room pretty heavily to make sure she didn't have any electronics she can contact people on so no worries there. I'm about to prepare a late dinner. I will try to get to all comments and direct messages soon but the sheer number of them is quite overwhelming. I have read and appreciate all of them aside from a few trolls, a big shout out to the people younger than myself who did there best to educate me on this whole fandom drama stuff.

I seriously cannot thank you guys enough. I was so lost and you all gave a complete stranger so much support and kindness. My faith in humanity has definitely been resorted a bit after I had lost some.

Just to answer a few common questions I've been receiving if can't gather the energy to reply:

"Does your eldest have autism?": My eldest has never been tested for autism but I am curious if this is a possibility. My middle child received her diagnosis mostly because of how intense her sensory issues are but I know boys are diagnosed with it alot more. I might do some more research and brush up on my knowledge as I really only know how my daughter's autism effects her and how to help her with it, I don't understand the experience of anyone else besides a basic "Signs" list. Everyone's mind works differently and that applies autistic people as well.

"Does your child know about your truama?": No, I've never told her. She apsolutely has known what predators are since I felt she was old enough to not call them "Bad people" anymore so she was educated on what on one actually is (An adult who preys on children) I had explicitly told her when she was old enough to sign up for Instagram that if people send her anything inappropriate to inform me or her father and block them. I didn't want my children to bare that information about myself, it's between me and my therapist. It's not their jobs to be sad because something bad happened to me as a kid.

"Do you think there's more truama she'd had you could be unaware of?": There's always that possibly, even if none of this happened as every victim responds differently and not every kid shows warning signs. There's always a chance this is also a maladaptive coping mechanism for her to deal with something else that slid past me. I deeply hope not but if that's the case I hope she feels comfortable telling me and more importantly, the professionals we plan on finding her.

"This reminds me of QAnon": Me as well, only a predatory version. From what I gather not everyone in these communities is a child groomer or are the types to send death threats, however, it seems like a lot of them are. Since gaining a lot of this insight, I hope this doesn't just stay in fanbase communities anymore and other parents can stay vigilant, especially if they hear their children discussing these sorts of topics alot.

"Please make sure to contact the FBI": I definitely plan on it if this police investigation goes no where and I'm not allowing them access to my daughter's electronic devices unless I am positive they are actually working with my local FBI office or a child cyber crimes unit of some kind. It feels as like so incredibly easy to track this woman down if the right people are involved.

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Comment as sixstepsaway

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level 1

Oh boy…

This seems like your daughter has gotten involved with “anti shippers” a really fanatical group of people who go to extreme measures to harass people who enjoy fictional relationships that they deem “problematic.”

For reference, these kinds of groups exist in very niche corners of certain fanbases of media, and came into existence as a reaction against “pro shippers”: people who are for fictional relationships that may be deemed “problematic.” Either way, it is petty internet drama that should never have been taken to real life, and your daughter is in need of serious help.

I’d recommend first of all, getting her serious psychological help. But also important things to understand are the ability to distinguish reality from fiction, how it’s never okay to harass people over fiction, as well as understanding parasocial relationships online and how they form.

I wish you great luck with your child, and am saddened to know that petty twitter drama has affected another child into nearly taking their own life.

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This is the only comment I'm replying to until later today but I found out about term "Anti's" right as I viewed your comment. I'm deeply concerned this isn't the only time this has happened.

You very much hit the nail on the head in regards to her not grasping the difference between fiction and reality when analyzing our conversation with a slightly clearer head. When you hear that sort of thing, it sounds at first as if my child fully believes these characters exist but it still applies to this situation 100%. I feel now that she genuinely believes on some level she is helping others.

I very much appreciate it and your two cents. After figuring out a lot of the culture surrounding this sort of thing, a lot makes me sense. We can only hope that people and especially teens can just enjoy their non harmful nerdy stuff in peace. I plan on making as many calls as it takes to get her the help she deserves.

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Avid Voter · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago

I hang around fan spaces so have seen anti stuff happening in the distance but have never interacted with any of them. The general view is that a lot of them are children who are indoctrinated like your child was. I’ve seen evidence of them stalking, bullying and doxxing artists, they genuinely believe they are doing something good. A lot of it is similar to a cult, they prey on vulnerable kids, assimilate them into a group, give them a ‘cause’ (protect children from everyone who we say is bad) and ‘identity’ (you are an Anti, you belong in our group and we hate xyz people) and shame, threaten and bully those that start to question if what they’re doing is good. It isn’t the first time Twitter drama has bled over into real life and has ended in a suicide attempt and it won’t be the last. I imagine your kid is pretty confused why you don’t understand what she’s saying, in her mind she’s really trying to defend children.

Don’t blame yourself, online is a garbage fire at the best of times, if you’re not in these spaces, you wouldn’t expect this kind of thing to exist. Online safety is much more than just keeping yourself anonymous enough not to be doxxed, it’s also protecting yourself from being manipulated into these spaces. Best of luck, I hope your daughter comes around but it’s likely she will be very coldly and entirely rejected by this group she is in if she does. If she doesn’t have many friends in real life, this may be an issue you want to be aware of. If she tries to talk to any of them while expressing any uncertainty about how they act towards artists, she will receive the same treatment.

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It sucks that you have to learn about these things.....but since they are now a crucial part of your world, I'm sure you'll be an expert in no time......I'm sorry you're going through this Momma but you're doing everything right......I know, with all the love you have for your child, that you WILL figure out how to help and I know that you WON'T stop til you get your baby back to 💯.......just remember to be kind to yourself along the way .....I think your family will come through this as a stronger family.....it's all gonna be okay.....big HUGZ .....I didn't really have any advice to add to what you've already gotten but I did want to just kinda encourage you a bit and let you know that everything is gonna be okay......you might have a long road ahead of you, but I have no doubt that you, hubby and kids are gonna do well at navigating it!!! You're doing everything right!!

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+1 · 1 mo. ago
Expert Advice Giver [11]

Wow. Just wow. A lot to unpack, but I definitely think a trip to the hospital is needed. If you can’t trust her to be alone, there’s a problem and she needs to be seen by a professional IMMEDIATELY.

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There's sort of a big 50/50 on if we should right now considering we finally got her to sleep but I do plan on having my husband watch over her tomorrow and possibly try to get her an emergency therapy session at bare minimum.

I don't know if I'm approaching the situation too gently because I know some parents would just take her to the police stations themselves but her behavior is so alarming and out of character, I just don't want to lose my baby. This doesn't feel like "tough lessons" moment.

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As a former psych nurse and current ER nurse I would take her to the ER. Or call any 24 hr emergency support systems that cover psychiatric care. Many areas have crisis teams that can be quite useful in situations like this. You might even try calling your local ER and asking them if they are aware of any services in your area. They can’t give you advice over the phone, but they should be able to direct you toward these resources. They might not too, hospitals can be gun shy, but it’s worth a shot.

You’re so wary of her behavior right now that you’ve felt the need to lock all of the sharp objects in the house away. So, are you going to be able to keep an eye on her all night? 24/7 until you feel the coast is clear? Because I wouldn’t be comfortable going to sleep with her unsupervised right now. And you need to sleep. You can’t start neglecting your own needs or the resulting fatigue is going to exacerbate the situation. You have to take care of yourselves so that you can take care of her.

Counseling is good, but I would gently remind you that her counselor has been involved for the last year while this was going on. They either did not identify any of the burgeoning issues, or did and didn’t feel that the situation should be reported to you. Which they could have done, your daughter is a minor and you can have access to her information (there is some variance by state). It might be worth having a conversation with her counselor before she is seen. It’s the only way to know that you are all on the same page. I would recommend that you have her seen by a psychiatrist as well as a counselor if you cannot have her seen by a psychologist that specializes in pediatrics.

Either way, please don’t leave her unsupervised tonight. Use the time you have awake to identify available resources and have her seen at the earliest available time. Reach out to her pediatrician for recommendations on crisis counselors/ resources. She has been groomed, indoctrinated and is presenting with some worrying obsessive thought patterns. Think of it as bringing someone out of a cult, because honestly that’s what it sounds like.You’re going to need all of the resources you can get.

We all have parts of ourselves that we consciously try to hide from others, and this is perhaps most true when we are teenagers beginning to find our own identity. If everything is as written I don’t think you did anything wrong. it’s just that a predator you knew nothing about, despite taking reasonable precautions, managed to slip in behind the door. This is what they do, and they’re good at it. The prey on people’s trust and faith in one another. I am so terribly sorry you and your family are experiencing this right now.

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I have no idea if you are doing the right thing, I don't even have children, but it seems to me that you are taking things slowly, trying to understand the problem, trying to find definitions regarding this whole mess so that you can give your daughter the best treatment.

I don't know what will happen, but I think with someone like that she is in good hands and I hope she gets out of that community. More than once I have thought about the danger of these small (or not so small) internet bubbles, which may seem silly at first until they form a radical group in which unfortunately anyone can fall in.

Hope you can come back with good news.

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I hope OP’s family gets the support they need.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+3 · 1 mo. ago
Expert Advice Giver [15]

Contact the youth and family services non-profit agency in your community. Your daughter may very well require urgent psychiatric care and your hunch and concern about self harm should be trusted.

Assuming your background story about an abuse-free upbringing is accurate, please don't blame yourself. I used to serve as a youth counselor for the county sheriff's department of probation and parole. My clients were young felons under 18. There was a small, but certain percentage of kids raised in "good" homes who just went bad--really bad sometimes. The cause was never identified. If your daughter's behavior problems escalates during the night, do get her to the ER.

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I seriously never considered that. Thank you so much for this. If she can get through the night, I think that might be the best course of action. I don't want her to feel as if we're getting her locked up and I've heard so many horror stories about long and even short stay mental health centers for teens, considering the truama I just found out about, the last thing I want is to add more on top of it

The only truama I know of before tonight was the death of her grandfather. She did have some mild bullying she went through in 5th grade but very much held her own and she's been in therapy since.

Once again thank you for your kind words and suggestion, I do plan on contacting one in the morning.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago
Enlightened Advice Sage [176]

She did say she was depressed and she clearly has been groomed into this propaganda.

She needs all the help she can get right now to unlearn this. Don't be mad at her for being abused, she's a victim too but also she has to learn to be held responsible for her actions, even if she was manipulated into those actions.


Nothing that happened to her was okay but also none of the things she did was okay and she NEEDS to know that. That what she did was wrong because she believed someone who was telling her it wasn't but that person was also wrong.

A lot to unpack here, years of therapy but it starts with you being firm but kind and most of all patient.


You mentioned your other child had autism. This type of personal morality and inflexible moral rigidity is a symptom of autism.

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This type of personal morality and inflexible moral rigidity is a symptom of autism.

You might be on to something here.

she clearly has been groomed into this propaganda.

Strongly reminds me of the Qanon conspiracy and all the damage it has done to people. A lot of people went from normal to not being able to cope with normal life due to those conspiracies in the last bunch of years.

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Prolific Commenter+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [4]

I was thinking of this too. It's apparently hard enough for some adults to separate fiction from reality. I really feel for anyone who has teens or tweens and has to worry about stuff like this.

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Monthly Top 10% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [2]

FWIW both my sister and I have had stays in mental inpatient facilities and it was very helpful for both of us.. (her as a teen. I went as an adult because my mother denied me inpatient care as a teen when I needed it, and I don't think that was a good choice bc now I gotta unpack all the addiction and bad coping skills I developed on my own.)

I'm sorry you're going through such a scary situation, but good for you for getting her to the ER and getting help.

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Someone before me has already mentioned that this "might be above reddit's paygrade," and I would like to reiterate that point, as it's pretty valid. This is definitely a matter for professional help, and if you are worried your daughter may hurt yourself, please seek professional medical help. You have already mentioned previously that she sees a therapist, which is fantastic. If you're able to once things are safer, make sure you reach out and update them, so that they can focus on this and help your daughter recover and reflect. And then, perhaps, get yourself a therapist if you don't already have one. You also need to make sure you take care of yourself in order to be able to take care of your daughter.

In terms of things I can offer, though, are condolences and reassurances. From what you've discussed, you've been as good a parent as you could have been. Sometimes we do all the right things and still something goes the exact opposite way you could have hoped, and from what you've written you did a lot of things right. You seem like a very open, trusting, and supportive parent, and your actions even after the start of the incident still show that. Your goal has always been to keep your child safe, but you were also making sure to respect her autonomy. The problem is here is that, like you mentioned, this was an emergency. This was something that had gone very very far into dangerous territory, and your "drastic measures" were taking away the thing that had made things unsafe. That is not unreasonable or wrong, that is I think the best thing you can do. She will be upset like you have mentioned, and it will be tough and scary, but this is the safest thing for her right now.

Right now, the internet is a very chaotic place. In places like discord, or twitter, or other social media sites, there are a lot of radical thoughts and ideology that are spreading through, and I've seen a bit of what your daughter has been exposed to. In terms of the wordage you mentioned being confused about, I can help shed some light? "Minor Coded," for example, means a character that does not have a clearly stated age, but their actions and their overall design suggest that they would be someone underage. The game cookie run, for example, is made of characters that are just cookies. They do not have an age. However, some cookies might look like they would be adults. They dress like an adult, they talk like an adult, and they act like an adult. Some cookies are on the opposite end. They act, look, speak, and dress like children. With regards to the pornography that this woman has sent of animated or real live people, their design or characters might be made to seem like a child or a minor. It is similar to the concept of women in pornography dressing in "school girl" outfits - they themselves are an adult, but they are dressing and acting like someone who is a minor wearing a school uniform.


Again, as others have mentioned, do not blame yourself here. There are a lot of bad parents out there who are either overbearing and overly strict, or there are parents who simply don't care at all and neglect their child. You are nowhere near either of that. You have tried your best to keep your daughter safe, but there was simply an outside influence that very few people have experience with, as it's just so new with the internet being structured the way it is. Sending all the love and support to you and your family. I am confident that with the support and love that you give, things will turn out okay. <3

Edit: Also ignore the guy who asked you to edit it to be more reasonable, he's an ass and you're very reasonably upset and panicked over this. And also apologies for the very very long response.

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First off - I am sorry that you are going through this. I imagine this is very difficult for you and your husband.

You mention, “I’m a victim of pedophilia myself”…

Does your daughter have any reason to be aware of this? Or, do you have any reason to suspect that she may have been a victim prior to all of this? It sounds to me as though she is obsessing over the concept of pedophilia. I am NOT blaming your daughter for being a victim of grooming, and I fully agree with you that whoever this individual is should be investigated for everything you’ve laid out.

In your shoes, I would do the following:

  1. Try sorting through how your daughter discovered this discord in the first place. Said differently - try to figure out why she would have ever been reading about or engaging in any sort of conversation on this topic. This is not a normal thing for children (or adults) to obsess over.

  2. contact the police.

  3. immediately find her a therapist at minimum.

  4. Guide her towards any sort of hobby. I am guessing she’s spent quite a bit of time and energy associating with these people. You should try to find a way to have her shift that attention toward just about anything else.

Good luck.

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I’m sorry to say that grooming of this nature runs rampant and the children have started to do it themselves. There really needs to be something done about it, but they’re all terminally online nowadays and it leads to them getting their opinions from the weirdos who are like that as adults.

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Avid Voter · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago

Your daughter needs serious help. Things like the "minor coded" characters or the "it's pedophilia if the characters have more than 2 years of age gap" are becoming more and more used in fandoms lately and it's honestly really alarming because, as you saw, these things can be applied in real life. Where things like that are perfectly normal.

(I don't know if you wanted an explanation but "minor coded" means that the character, usually an adult woman from an anime, has some physical features that are usually used to portray a minor character, like her being short and/or skinny)

I think your daughter needs to take a break from social medias and internet in general while you and the police deal with the woman in the discord group.

Hope everything will go well from now on

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago
Master Advice Giver [39]

This sort of abnormal fixation on perceived deviancy, witch hunting (false accusations), bullying, and distorted sense of reality is well beyond anyone's pay grade on here.

Therapy.Yesterday.

Both you and your husband should also seek help in figuring out a "punishment" including atonement, removal of privileges, apologies, correct behavior to reinforce, reality vs make believe, the dangers and ramifications of misplaced zealotry, moral beliefs vs. the law, opening up the family to getting sued for slander/libel, etc.

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Wow.

I'm really sorry that you're going through all this. I hope things are as calm at the moment as they can be. Thanks for sharing with us. Most of this might be above reddit's pay grade but we'll try to help as much as we can.

I am not sure your daughter even understands her actions herself. She is 14, and as you say, this woman on discord has framed herself as a 'safe person' and is involving your daughter and other minors in conversations they shouldn't be involved in. I don't think your daughter understands what she is saying, why she is saying it or the impact of her words/actions.

If you can't trust her to be alone, if you can't trust her not to self-harm, please consider taking her to your nearest Emergency Room, where she can be referred urgently to a psychologist or psychiatrist. There may be other things that need to be done, but the very first thing is to provide her with someone she can talk to, who you and she both trust, who knows what to do next. This might well lead you to discover the root cause of what she has been saying/doing.

Well done you for behaving in a calm (well, as calm as you can be), rational manner and to both yourself and your husband for ensuring the physical and emotional safety of your other children at this time, as well as caring for 14F. Your other children might be scared, but they'll be feeling a whole lot better spending quality time with Dad and grandparents in a calm environment.

So I know you're feeling all the feels right now, but well done you and thank you for sharing with us. Hope you're doing OK at the moment. Stay safe.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Expert Advice Giver [10]

Unbelievable what some of these creeps do. I would definitely keep her under a close watch and I agree the police need to be involved. Obviously your daughter’s health and safety are paramount. Regardless, this sick woman ( if that’s what she truly is because it could be a man or another teen) needs to be caught and stopped. Who knows if some other kid somewhere has acted on the call to end their life. For that reason alone you need the authorities involved. God Bless you and good luck.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+3 · 1 mo. ago
Assistant Elder Sage [207]

I cannot even imagine how you are feeling. As a parent I am sure you are scared and very troubled by your child's behaviour.

You are doing everything right, you are addressing the issue head on, also protecting your other children from this is also important.

I would suggest looking up "brain washing" esp in children. There are several searches that might help you with guidance on how to help right now. Imagine she has been brain washed is probably the closest you can get to explaining this.

Just know that this is not your fault. Perhaps there is a link between making her aware of dangers to a perhaps stronger degree than most so she has internalised fear, I would make the therapist aware of this as it would explain her vulnerability to being more hyper aware than most.

I am sure you will all get through this together, you are stronger than you know.

How to deal with a brainwashed person

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Hi. I'm currently making another update but I just want to say I've read through most of the comments, including this one, and I can not begin to tell you how thankful I am for that link. It's beyond helped us in getting her to be open about seaking help and being able to communicate with her in general.

I seriously feel this type of thing should be common knowledge nowadays considering how rapidly people can get radicalized into different groups and cults. Not to mention, who knows what can trigger psychosis. It can happen to anyone really.

It's something I never thought about until this happened to my daughter. I appreciate all your help and I can't thank you enough ❤️

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+3 · 1 mo. ago
Assistant Elder Sage [207]

❤️ I am very glad to have been able to support you in a small way.

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Thank you for confirming that /u/Realistic-Airport775 has provided helpful advice for you. 1 point awarded.

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Prolific Commenter+2 · 1 mo. ago
Advice Guru [60]

She needs help. And to get off Twitter etc.

Teens have become very very vulnerable to the weird "pedophilia overload" phenomenon, where relatively harmless or normal situations are deconstrued and misconstrued as harmful.

Words like grooming children and pedophile have lost all meaning when applied to scenarios that are far from that.

I honestly struggle to get what the endgame is, besides a sanitized, prudish utopia/dystopia where everyone is a "child" til they turn 18and should thus be treated like a 4yo. But on the other hand, minors can still be promoted as celebrities to be admired and desired, clearly attracting adults way outside the intended target audience.

It's frankly disconcerting that the current landscape has birthed this weird peso-hunt and the creepy "X days til 18" countdown. And Disney Channel starlets, and goddamn toddlers beauty pageants.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

This isn’t anything new. This has been going on for decades. See: Satanic Panic of the 80s.

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Prolific Commenter+2 · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago
Advice Guru [60]

But the difference is now the panic is shared and encouraged by the demographic of the potential victims and of the "perpetrators" too!

In the 80s it was parents and moral guardians who pushed the panic. Nowadays it's teens themselves policing others and going overboard with frankly ludicrous statements and zealot, self-righteous criteria for what is "ok" and what is not.

You didn't hear, say, fans of Ozzy or Iron Maiden going "OMG am I a Satanist?!" FFS, not even black metal fans necessarily subscribed to the darkest and most disturbing aspect of the music... But now you have 16yo having an existential crisis because they found a 15yo hot...

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

That’s a fair point. I thought you were speaking generally about the phenomenon.

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So, as someone who is heavily involved in fandom and fandom spaces, this all sounded incredibly familiar. There is a movement in fandoms called "antis", and they're basically your daughter.

Usually teens, but also some adults, who are obsessed with the idea that age differences or power imbalances between fictional characters are somehow harmful in real life. To the point of harassing fan artists and fanfic writers, and yes, it has resulted in some suicide attempts and even some actual completed suicides. They even try to get popular platforms for fanart/fanfic, like AO3, to ban or censor things they don't like. Which hasn't worked, but they still try.

There's also a counter movement referred to as "proshippers", which try to counter some of this stuff, but which have their own issues, too. Like a majority of them seem to believe that nobody should even be allowed to express a negative opinion about a weird/off-putting ship, even if it's not harassing any particular person. They also tend to, in my view, only egg on the "antis" by engaging them at all. Since they've never actually been all that successful, in recent years, at getting fanart/fanfic/ships banned or censored, there's really no need to even acknowledge them. It just keeps the fight at a fever pitch all the time.

Consequently, there's a neverending "war" between these two sides of fandom, and they just become more extreme and hateful towards the "other side", which exacerbates the problem.

The majority of fandom is, I believe, caught in the middle of all this. I fall into this category. Some things that people ship or write/draw gross me out, like incest ships, and honestly, I think someone who ships adult characters with characters that are toddlers or young kids needs their head examined, but I also understand that it's fiction, that writing/drawing/shipping such stuff is legal, at least in the United States, and therefore there's nothing I can do about it. I just avoid those people and their works, and get on with my life. That's what most of fandom does.

I don't have any particular advice for you, but just wanted to give some context for what's happening here. You or a therapist might want to address with your daughter the idea of what she can actually control (her own actions) vs. what she can't (other people's actions). She's of course allowed to have an opinion about certain ships or fandom activities, but that doesn't mean she can really control whether that stuff exists or not. That might be a starting point, at least. There could be some other underlying anxieties, maybe about sex or impending adulthood, that might be causing her to fixate on these issues.

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but I also understand that it's fiction, that writing/drawing/shipping such stuff is legal, at least in the United States, and therefore there's nothing I can do about it.

Just wanted to touch on this point here. I think part of the problem with antis is that they want this stuff to be illegal, and they are trying to do something about it.

And the thing is, I can to some extent understand their concerns-- does shipping this stuff in fiction affect people's real lives? If it does, shouldn't we try to put a stop to it? It sounds noble and good and right when you put it like that, the idea of preventing incest or child abuse or pedophilia before it happens and there's a real life victim, rather than a fictional one. But it creates toxic environments like this that take it to extremes.

It also puts, well, anyone into the line of fire. There are plenty of Game of Thrones fans out there who shipped Jon Snow and Daenerys getting together, but would never be okay with an aunt and her nephew in real life. Would anyone in their right mind think a full grown adult and a sixteen year old should be together? No, but then you frame it as Edward Cullen (who was like 90 or something) and Bella Swan, and it's mainstream fiction. Does that mean all Twilight fans are okay with pedophilia? Of course not! Also writing fan fiction of or drawing art of these "problematic" ships helps a lot of people cope with their own trauma. Even if it has nothing to do with trauma, it's fiction. I shudder to think what a person would make of my AO3 history, but just because I've read or written stories that revolve around incest, child abuse, rape, etc, that does not mean I condone any of these acts.

Also, OP, it might be worth it to see if your daughter has a Tumblr. I tend to find more of the anti/pro-shipper stuff on Tumblr.

I have a lot of thoughts on this, as someone who's been engaged in fandom for a long time, but I don't have the time to put it all into words right now. OP, I do think you're doing everything right and I hope you are able to get the support your family needs right now.

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She could be on the autism spectrum as well because defending the norms or rules vigorously is a trait of autism. As a girl who is now somewhat a women, I could not stress enough about gatekeeping the internet. I’m glad it was not worse.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

It could be autism, but it can also just be brainwashing/programming. It’s hard to tell here. I would assume since OP has one child with autism already, she’s had her other children screened, too.

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I’d cancel the internet and cellphones for a few years. She’s too easily influenced by online nonsense. My friend did that with her daughter who was being groomed, she had to go back to a landline and ditch all internet devices to force her daughter to rejoin the real world. It worked

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Maybe contact a lawyer before going to the police, if you have the means. I feel like I'm this day and age giving all this info to the cops is putting your family in a position where you'll be at the mercy and discretion of someone who may not actually care for your well being at all and has no interest in actually resolving anything.

Cops these days are just well... hit or miss I guess but with a very good chance of miss.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

They can still go to the cops, and hire a PI, which is going to be a little bit more affective than a lawyer at this stage.

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I just wanted to say that the people who indoctrinate teens are well practised in ways of encouraging them to hide their behaviours from their loved ones, in the same way as cult leaders know how to manipulate behaviour, except with the internet it adds an extra layer to the covert behaviour. You sound like you have your daughters best interests at heart, and that’s what she needs, and you are doing a great job. We can’t control what they do as they get older, we can try and trust that they make the right choices, and she’s only a kid. Unfortunately our babies fall in with the wrong crowds sometimes, and we have to manage the fallout, which is what you’re doing.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+3 · 1 mo. ago
Enlightened Advice Sage [167]

Simply put, these people prey on kids who may have depression or anxiety issues and groom them into this misery she's experiencing. It's a kind of "psy-op" where they use tricks of the mind and suggestion to coax them into this terrible way of thinking. Think of some of the dopey stuff we'd fall for when we were teenagers and multiply that into today's internet garbage. Yes, find a therapist who can help your daughter see what was done to her, manipulatively - almost like what happens to people in a cult. Remind your daughter of what a good kid she has been and that that girl still exists. I would bet that if you put that group's name in a search engine, there will be other parents in there who are having the same problem as you. As bad as this has gotten already, thank goodness it was caught at this stage. Lots of damage to un-do, but it's still do-able. Maybe get a lawyer in there to advise you on what to do and not do, regarding your daughter's behavior and how to protect her legally. Sorry this is happening to you.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Master Advice Giver [38]

I agree with those who are advising you to seek immediate mental health care for your daughter. What you are describing sounds to me like some kind of psychotic break.

You are dealing with something extremely serious here, and it seems pretty clear that in addition to intervention, she needs to be watched 24/7 during this crisis. This is waaaay above your pay grade; please seek professional help.

I think a visit to the emergency room is called for here; if not tonight, then first thing tomorrow.

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I also think this sounds like a psychotic break or possibly an intense manic episode. I’m not a therapist or psychologist by any means, but I have a lot of personal experience with folks who have had psychotic and manic episodes and this story sends up a lot of red flags for me.

OP, make sure when you take her to the ER or a psych, they understand that this was SUDDEN AND OUT OF CHARACTER.

It is also important to recognize the role that the discord server has had in indoctrinating her, but the very sudden and strange behavior may be a whole separate issue here. Both need to be discussed with a professional.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

I’m not sure this was sudden. It sounded like daughter has been breaking for a long while—hence all the vitriol she’s spreading on the internet, the bullying in person.

This isn’t sudden. It’s a build up.

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Avid Voter · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago

Two things here, your daughter is very, very likely on the autistic spectrum, and this has been leveraged by some groomers on the internet. You have done everything right, however the ER might not be the right choice as once you push that button things can move very quick and out of your control, children and families might be a more sensible approach. However gathering evidence for the police is absolutely the right thing as you may have helped to expose a ring of very dangerous individuals.

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Prolific Commenter+3 · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago
Helper [2]

I read through your entire post. I wish I could give every one of you guys a hug. I'm so sorry.

I'm not able to continue reading through everyone's replies, so I'm not sure whether or not anyone has mentioned this

I think you should look into something called PHP or Partial Hospitalization Program. It's for children who have fallen out of the "emergency" status needed for full inpatient hospitalizations.

In my opinion she needs an inpatient treatment if she's acting that erratic and you're afraid she'll hurt herself, but I think when she gets out (or if they don't take her) she should really be part of a PHP to start kind of reprogramming her brain and easing her back into a normal life, as opposed to her life in the past year that has been completely entangled in this "activism" and all-consuming rage.

I really encourage you to consider the possibility of you and her volunteering once a month to help 'heal her soul' so to speak. I'm trying to empathize with her and where her head might be when she's able to comprehend how much harm she's done. I know that near me is an animal rescue called "Lost our homes" that works with women in abusive households to keep their pets while they escape/get a new house. Something like that could be healing for her when you think she might be able to handle it. She'd be helping people and animals but able to take a hands off approach when it comes with people. They let volunteers come and go and even just play with the cats if they want. Not sure about COVID though

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You're doing a great job and helandling things extremely well.

This situation must be really scary so I see that you've approached it with as much care as possible.

With that being said, the group your child was involved in sounds very similar to a cult that I had unpleasant interaction with. More recently a lot of cults are branching out from using religion for control (as many people are becoming less religious) and instead are benefitting from the social justice warrior narrative.

Your child must be someone with very strong morals and a deep desire to help others. That's such a lovely mindset but it makes her a lot more susceptible to these kinds of predators on the internet.

Having her seen by a professional is definitely going to help her and you. In my own personal opinion (please feel free to ignore) having conversations about how one goes about helping people and also about what has happened here with your other children may be very important.

You've said one of your children is an autistic artist? That child will really need to feel safety in their hobbies as they get older. Maybe take some time to do encouraging activities with them (watch an art how to video together and share, talk about favorite cartoon character, etc).

These are my suggestions just because there's no way to really know the impact that groomer had on your oldest daughter nor the impact that may have had on your other children.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Master Advice Giver [21]

Honestly, you could hardly have done any better.

None of this is you or your husband fault. You have to stand strong together and not try to look for someone to blame, there is quite a bit of a road ahead to help your daughter get better. I'm sure you'll get there.
Best of luck

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Monthly Top 10% Karma+3 · 1 mo. ago
Master Advice Giver [23]

It sounds like she is doing the right thing, but on the wrong track. Pedophilia is bad, and innocent people should be protected from them. However, she's seeing it where it isn't, which is causing problems with her, and those around her. She needs a calm rock of logic around her. If you become her prison warden, you cannot be her rock. Just keep her away from those online echo chambers, and be her friend in every other way.

It seems you're mostly doing the right thing, but this sort of thing won't go away in one conversation. I think she'll be ok, in time, now that you're aware of it, but since she mentioned depression, it can be helpful to take her to a therapist, just in case.

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I saw someone already explained to you what anti-shippers are. I really don’t think you should give her access to those accounts again, so I would change the passwords on both accounts so she can’t login on some hidden device. Also, see if you can have the police image the devices and give you a copy. When this is all said and done, you should delete the accounts. Normally I would never say something so extreme, but I really don’t think she should ever have access to those accounts ever again.

The other thing that you’re probably not thinking about is how much YOU need therapy! Have you gone to therapy about your childhood related trauma? And even if you have, this situation you’re going through is insane and I really think you need to speak to a professional about it. I can’t see how this could possibly be your fault, but I think a professional can help you work through that better than internet strangers.

I am wishing you the best of luck OP. I hope you can catch that discord criminal.

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A lot of folks telling you to go to the ER… when I was young, I was in inpatient mental health care via ER as a response to a psychotic episode caused by abuse. It was awful. I felt dumped/abandoned and the people were terrifying. They heavily medicated me and made me feel crazy. Your daughter is having issues, but I would advise against this because it could make her lose trust and actually be traumatizing.

I think you’re doing the right thing. Watch her, re-establish trust and be honest with her about what’s happening. Remind her you love her and ABSOLUTELY get some therapy- individual and family. Your daughter is not bad, she’s responding to grooming and indoctrination - make sure she knows this. You sound like a great, loving mom. What a nightmare.

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In the most respectful way, I disagree. I fully understand how awful it can be in a psych ward. Been there myself as a teen as well. It can be terrible.

But this child may be an actual danger to herself and others right now. She needs intensive help and support that OP cannot reasonably provide. I believe she may be having a psychotic or manic episode, and if so, a psych ward will be the safest place to work through that. Inpatient care isn’t always horrible. Some places are worse than others, so if OP is given options, it would be good to look into each and find the best fit.

OP, if she is placed into an inpatient program, visit her every day. Find out what comfort items you might be able to bring her if any. Do everything you can to support her and be there for her. This will help her feel less alone. This kind of serious and sudden change in behavior can be a sign of bigger problems. She needs the most hands-on psychiatric help available to you right now.

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You’re not wrong, but she shouldn’t do it through the ER, she should see a child psychologist or psychiatrist and from there look at inpatient

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THANK YOU. People telling her to take her to the ER clearly have never been in that situation and have no idea what they are talking about.

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I have been taken to the ER for a mental health crisis, detained and hospitalized for inpatient psychiatric care. Did the ER treat me, know. They kept me safe and contacted the appropriate resources to help me.

Was it pleasant, of course not. I was in crisis at the time and wanted nothing to do with those people. Did it help me? In the long run, yes. The ER isn’t going to treat mental health disorders, but they will keep people safe until those who are appropriately qualified to do so are able to arrive.

As a nurse I have also monitored, assisted in treatment and participated in the detainment of others. I probably have more understanding of both sides of the process than the majority of my coworkers.

I in no way want to invalidate your own experience, but please return the favor of not automatically assuming that your experience speaks for all.

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I’m not assuming my experience speaks for all, but please don’t assume yours does either.

As a former psych nurse, I’m sure you’re also aware as well of how your coworkers talk about these teens and the terrible things they think they can’t hear—that they will remember and internalise for the rest of their lives.

OP went to the ER and realized it was the wrong decision—that a Patient Care Center was better. She made the best choice and thank god.

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There’s a lot of people in my age group who are like this. It’s so sad. And when they turn 18 and beyond they are still trying to claim they are a minor. My generation has a scary fear of growing up. Spaces like tiktok and Twitter groom them to be this way.

I’m sorry for the situation your in. Please take her to a PHP ( partial hospitalization ). Or maybe even a full one and the partial after.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

Sigh, if she comes across QAnon, she might be lost forever.

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I reccomend putting your daughter in an inpatient hospital. Something like this happened to me when I was your daughter's age-- I had a planned suicide attempt and told my therapist not knowing she would send me to the ER immediately. Everything from online friendships and relationships to fanfiction I wrote unfolded. Your daughter will not enjoy inpatient, but it will be extremely helpful. After inpatient it's best to send her to outpatient for a while too. Things will get better. Hope everything goes well.

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i think your daughter is being manipulated by that woman. it would explain her obsession and strong emotional reactions

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I just read this post and i honestly choked up with tears half way through. I havn't any advice but just want to say from mother to mother..You are doing the right thing. Do not blame yourself. I am aware of groomers and that there some are wierd cultish things happeneing online, sucking our children into it but i couldn't even imagine how i would ever deal with what you are. It all sounds so distressing for everyone involved. New mama fear unlocked.

I'm sorry you, your family and any other minors involved have to go through this. I think you have handled it so well by seeking profession help for you daughter, reporting the 'groomer' and working together with the classmates parents too. Too many parents these days would dismiss the details and put all the blame on anyone else, in hopes of protecting their child and family name. All the best going forward for you and your daughter.

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This is definitely one of those really delicate situations where getting professional help is one of the better options. While I can’t give you much advice I really hope you both manage get through this.

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My daughter experience a similar mood swing, and it was terrifying. I was so concerned with her behavior and thought processes that I didn’t even think something had happened to her to trigger it. I’m so glad your daughter has such loving and understanding parents.

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Avid Voter · 1 mo. ago
Helper [2]

Get her a psychiatrist asap. She needs help

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You've probably recieved all the advice you need and managed to plan out what to do next so I don't really have anything to add, I just wanted to say that you shouldn't apologise for coming here for advice, that's the reason this subreddit exists.

After reading your post I can't imagine the rollercoaster of emotions you've been through, it's pretty scary to read how your daughter has basically been brainwashed but it's fortunate that you've discovered all of this now rather than later before things become even worse especially when she's been trying to bully someone to suicide. I really hope she responds well to any help she gets and that she eventually see's the error of her ways.

Also it's great that you're collecting evidence and reporting this woman, she sounds like some sort of cult leader and who knows how many kids she's brainwashed so far and will continue to do so, with the encouraging of violent bullying etc. It really could end up with a kid committing suicide. I hope all goes well with exposing this woman and hopefully she gets the punishment she deserves.

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That discord server sounds like an online cult practically

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Prolific Commenter+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [2]

I dunno what all you've heard but a few things (and hopefully I'm repeating stuff)...

You can do everything right as a parent, do your best, and shit will still happen. That's just life. You're doing the best you can with what you have. At times you feel guilty, remind yourself of that. You're not perfect and no one else is.

Also, yeah this sounds like cult stuff. Seeking out someone who works in psychological "deprogramming" would probably work best for your daughter. The good news is she's still young and I can't imagine it being too difficult for her to "deprogram" as the people who do that stuff work with folks who have been in cults for years and years. Things are going to be rocky for a bit, but it sounds like she has parents who have her back. With the proper professional and personal support, this will hopefully be in the rear-veiw mirror sooner than later.

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You aren't repeating anything ❤️ I very much appreciate the kindness and hope. Having hope that things can improve for my daughter is all I need right now.

It's very hard to not blame myself but seeing so many people tell me that this isn't my fault helps a lot. My husband I know feels the same. I've shown him how much support we've gotten here as well as everything on twitter I've found to show him we aren't the only ones and it's eased our minds a bit

I'm making another update soon but I'm very grateful for the former cult related recovery groups that are willing to help her. If you ever meet anyone in our situation, please know these programs always take it seriously, even if it is not a religious cult. ❤️

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wow. and I mean.. I understand that is an understatement. And that's all I'm putting here. best of luck. My advice? sit with your daughter and have a conversation. A hard conversation. Prayers for you and yours.

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Thank you ❤️ Prayers are very much appreciated right now. My husband and I are thinking about calmly discussing go impatient with her. I hope I can find a care center that isn't like the horror stories I've read on here.

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Ma'am, I may be a teen too but I recommend hiring a hacker to track down this "24 year old woman's" address, identity and all other information about her then gather enough evidence of what she did that would obviously be against the law then post and share it to the public (without the evidence first) to warn the parent's of those other kids and finally take down that asshole. For your daughter, she needs professional help from a psychologist (not like Dr Phil crap) to make her realize that she shouldn't trust strangers to so easily and what separates "fiction" from "reality"

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

I don’t think you mean a hacker. You mean a private investigator.

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A hacker would be better because those people aren't afraid to break the law to an extent as long as they get paid properly

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

The problem with this is, it’s fairly hard to find one of these people. Anyone you run into while looking for a hacker, is most likely a scammer.

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Best I can suggest is to ask for a reliable one here in Reddit

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Why get a hacker when the police have all the resources at their disposal to identify people who post online? AFAIK all they need to do is issue a warrant and subpoena to Discord, and/or get information through the various .gov agencies’ internet surveillance operations.

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The hacker gets the job on time and we all know how incompetent the police in the US are, right?

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The advice I could give has already been provided by other users so I’m just here to give you a reminder that you’re doing a great job!

I just want to say any parent under that circumstance would feel immense pressure from wanting to do the right thing, to protecting your own child. And often times those lines don’t meet at all. You may feel stuck in that situation, but I want to let you know that you’re doing an amazing job! It’s in no way an easy thing to tackle but you have done, and continue to do, such an amazing job raising your children to be the best and as safe as possible. You are not a failure as a mother, quite the opposite! You did everything right, from trying to listen to her side of the story, to finding the root of the problem, to finding a common ground that agrees to all parties involved, and finally: to getting your daughter the help she needs. And all while you and your partner care and protect your other children.

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Avid Voter · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago

Wow, I’m shook. That’s a lot. I hope your daughter finds the help she needs. I think your daughter had good intentions with what she’s been doing but she didn’t know that she was tricked into thinking it was a good thing to do.

I don’t think you should feel like a failure for this. I think there’s been a lot of bad luck involved here as well that she fell into this niche trap of thinking this was a good thing to do. You tried your best to teach her from a young age but she was still unlucky to meet this woman.

I think you can definitely use this post outside reddit as well to explain the situation; it’s very detailed.

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I mean in Eastern Europe we would be 6ft under for doing something like that in school by her parents and probably ours too.Like we would been grounded for at least a few months without outside world let alone electronis. You need to take her to the professionals asap. Don't be afraid to be a bit harder on her if this doesn't end soon, consequences in the future will be bottom line dangerous. The guilty card is always played by teens especially if parents are good like you from what I can tell. But when they get outside and have experiences on their own they usually try to abuse that kindness. Don't fall for that.

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As someone who’s ran into pedo groups on the internet, and has had people attempt to convince me to partake in a lot of things with them or involve my siblings, I know how effective these con artist can be. They are incredibly skilled at convincing people that what they do is perfectly okay, and that everyone around them is somehow in the wrong, it’s a great tactic for isolation and making them rely completely on the groomer, making it easier to brainwash them into doing whatever the groomer wants. I was lucky enough that these occurrences weren’t until I was 16, and by this point I had a very strong understanding of psychology and could recognize the signs of things such as gaslighting and other forms of manipulation and control. But not many others are quite as lucky, and all I can really suggest is to try not to blame her for what she believed. Definitely ensure she understands she has to be held accountable for her actions, but the overall beliefs and ideals she was following were not her own and its important to make the distinction between the two. She will need lots of work to overcome these beliefs and to help her recover, but she will also need lots of support to not eventually come to hate herself and see herself as a horrible person, because this will lead to a completely different spiral. It’s a very thin line to walk on, but with the right resources and amount of support she can recover and remain at least mostly mentally healthy. Another important thing to remember for you and your husband is to take care of yourselves. She’s going to need you both, and you will be more help to her if you’re mental stable and mentally prepared to provide the support she needs. I wish you the best of luck

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This is awful and I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Internet safety 15 years ago is not at all the same as internet safety today. All the old threats-- actual pedophiles, groomers, catfishers, etc. are still there, but modern social media is set up in a way that makes it easy for people to get sucked into insular communities that pull people further and further to extremism. Cults can form almost by accident with the way sites like Twitter and Tiktok are set up. This isn't your fault; the environment has changed so fast and it's hard to keep up.

I really hope she can get some help with deprogramming. She may need to stay off all social media for a while.

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All-Time Top 100 Poster+4 · 1 mo. ago
Master Advice Giver [34]

First things first, I know when I was a teenager, and got my phone taken away, I always had another phone my parents didn’t know about so it never effected me. Where is her OLD phone?

I think maybe seeing someone to help get her on a medication that can help with her moods, and some of her compulsive behaviors would help so much. It may not be something she has to take permanently, but at least until she can come to terms that she has been groomed and manipulated by an adult who was taking advantage of her.

I believe you were absolutely right on taking all her electronics, she needs to understand that she has broken your trust, and that she has ruined her privileges over this.

Maybe start doing movie nights, or doing something simple with her. She can’t just sit and mope over her cell phone 24/7.

If you do give back her phone, probably start with something like, you can’t have your phone in your room, and you must turn in your phone every night by 9pm. If you’re late, we take it away.

Simple things like that!

I’m really sorry that this all happened at once, you are doing a very good job at being a parent right now. She needs you more than ever, even if she’s pushing you away. There’s also some over the counter gummies I take for stress/anxiety, if you do feel that, it’ll help so much so I totally recommend!

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You've gotten a lot of great advice in this thread. Former mental health professional checking in here.

Dealing with victims of grooming as well as deprogramming are difficult and complex things for mental health professionals to undertake. I think it's time for you to look into a clinical mental health team for your daughter, which includes psychologist (diagnosis), psychiatrist (if meds are needed and confirming diagnosis), and a therapist (someone with their masters or higher). Having a team provide wrap around supports for your daughter will help ensure that nothing is missed and she receives accurate diagnosis. Her outbursts are demonstrative of serious mental illness and/or trauma, she is around the age where many mental illnesses begin presenting which is why doing this properly is so critical. Specialized individual treatment is needed asap.

Is she able to attend specialized schooling, I would be worried about her accessing the internet via her friends devices and relapsing into the group. Perhaps a specialized residential treatment program is also an option, however just be aware that there is risk to that as she will be interacting with other vulnerable kids and that has a way of going sideways at times.

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Go to the Emergency Room. Daughter will probably be admitted to inpatient mental health- which would be a good thing and they could keep her safer than you can at home- your daughter can speak with a professional. Hopefully you live in a big city where they have adolescent psychologist.

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Sounds like your daughter may be on the autism spectrum as well, just from some of the behaviours mentioned.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

Like what exactly? I’m curious as I didn’t really get that feel.

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I didn't either, but I can say that a strong sense of morality / justice can be a sign of autism. It's a part of having a rigid thinking style in which "my belief is the belief," which some autistic people have. It can also be a sign of other mental illnesses that involve rigid or black-and-white thinking, though. Other than that, I didn't notice anything that could be related to autism, but maybe someone else spotted more signs.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

I saw some other person make this comment and explain that.

It could be autism, or it just could be the brainwashing/programming. Since OP has one child with autism, I’d imagine she’d have the rest screened for it, too.

But perhaps not.

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I'd agree that it's more likely to be the latter. The possibility is there, but there isn't enougj information to make a more concrete claim. I'd think the OP would know if there were other signs that may indicate autism, but since she didn't mention it as a possibility, I'm inclined to believe that there aren't any.

If the child is actually having a psychotic break or manic episode (I'm not very educated on either), then I'd say it's more likely to be a result of that rather than neurodivergency.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

It doesn’t sound like mania to me, but it also doesn’t sound like full-blown psychosis (completely out of touch with reality). However, she might be completely out of touch. Not enough info like you said.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [3]

Ignore the lazy. You explained this incredibly well, and there is nothing that needs editing. I am your age, and I feel that you have done everything right up to this point. Only an opinion, of course. I am glad you’re going to the police, and I want you to be as thorough in your report as you were here. I also agree with other commenters that this is a medical crisis that needs immediate intervention. Consider a hospital emergency room that admits mental health patients (some hospitals don’t, research this first). She needs to be on suicide watch as well as receive extensive cognitive behavioral therapy. As a side note, I do follow some anime accounts on Twitter and have occasionally noticed the battles between pro and anti shippers, with certain people calling others pedophiles to the point of absurdity. I have blocked most of those people, as well as the porn accounts. If she is this heavily influenced to the point of madness, she needs to lose access to social media. She can talk to her friends at school and by (monitored) calls and text messaging. I am truly sorry this is happening. I hope you and the police track down the culprits who manipulated your daughter.

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Wishing you and your family lots of love to get back on track

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RemindMe! 2 weeks

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Hello..From what i've read is that your daughter is into those fan bases and is angry about people drawing them, which is actually a normal thing that happens in fan bases and i'm sure she's seeking for them for herself. It also seems like the discord server who claims to be a 24 year old woman is at wrong here and should bear consequences for giving teens who's just learning about the world these horrible horrible advice and making them seems as if they're right which i would say that your daughter has been completely brainwashed by this person. and the things your daughter has said and did the the other girl is very wrong in my opinion which might affect the other girl in multiple ways and for your daughter behaviour to change you should maybe assist her to another therapist as she doesn't feels comfortable with the current one anymore.Maybe she's been feeling this way for a long time and has been bottling it up while not telling the therapist or you(which is normal for teens not to tell parents everything).My only advice is that make sure to get her help,maybe a new therapist for her to open up and give her some good advice as well..I hope that your situation gets in control soon!

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I don't have any advice other than doctors needed asap, but I am posting to wish you the best of luck. My thoughts are with you and I know that somehow, you will get through this.

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[deleted]
· 1 mo. ago

You’re a good mom. Head up, you may have saved her life by locking up the sharps. Almost everything you’ve done so far is the best you could’ve done for the situation

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Prolific Commenter+1 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [2]

Remindme! 1 week

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Prolific Commenter+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [2]

Keep us updated

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[deleted]
· 1 mo. ago

I hope your daughter will receive the help that she needs. I had been inpatient before, but I checked myself in and it was the best thing I did back then. Not all facilities are bad, but I believe you need to talk to her about it first and make her realize she needs help and it will be for her own goof before putting her in there and make sure she knows when she feels bad at any point that she can always check out.

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Prolific Commenter+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [9]

A Social Worker may also be helpful, in Canada we also have CYW Child and Youth Workers.

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Discord has done it again. May your daughter recover from this.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Phenomenal Advice Giver [44]

Your family needs more in depth professional help than a Reddit thread can offer. You already know that your daughter needs intensive therapy. She might even need inpatient treatment because it sounds like she’s having a psychotic episode. I would temporarily take all electronics away from her not as punishment, but because she’s too unhinged and incapable of managing it right now. Talk to the therapist about future electronic use.

I wish you strength and courage to deal with this incredibly difficult situation.

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If this is real, I'm so sorry

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I believe it’s real. I’m not sure how old u r but there’s a lot of kids on tiktok and Twitter who are like this. She isn’t the only one going through this

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I feel for you guys. Wow world is so fucked up

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Avid Voter · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago

This is an awful situation and it sounds like you are handling it well. Good choice on taking away her devices right away. She probably doesn't even realize the legal danger she is putting herself and her family in by behaving like this online, kids make mistakes though, so I would keep the devices away from her indefinitely until this is figured out.

I don't think it's crazy to assume a lot of our children are involved in radical communities like this, given the state of internet culture/activism right now. You at least are aware of this, and are making smart choices.

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Monthly Top 10% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago

In addition to what everyone else has been saying, if this woman has sent your daughter and these other children porn, and discussed sex and sexual fetishes with them, you also need to contact the FBI so these other children are protected as well. Contact your local FBI field office and they can take it from there.

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Monthly Top 10% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [3]

You’re doing all the right things OP. Go to the police and get your daughter help. It sounds like you’ve been a wonderful mother, and still are.

From what I have heard, these situations are awful, but things do get better. You know now what has happened, which means you can now help your daughter. Things may get worse in the short term, but I promise they will get better in the long term. All the best to you and your family.

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Just sending you a huge virtual hug OP. Continue to do right by your daughter and the other children who are being victimized. You’re handling this so incredibly well and are showing extreme amounts of strength. You sound like you’re taking all of the right steps so I’m just going to say keep your head up, continue being there for your children, and get her the help she needs. Good luck, friend.

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Prolific Commenter+1 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [2]

Hang in there mum, you're doing all the right things. This isn't a parental fault situation. You gently let her have freedom, which is something our children need do they can blossom into adults! You cannot blame yourself for the sinister actions of others.

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I appreciate it Just testing out the point system here but your advice was helpful. ❤️

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Hope this isn't weird that it's so late, but as a female autistic young adult I just want to say I agree very much with the other people who noted she is likely autistic! The rigidity, strict rule following, the level of obsession/hyperfixation (autistic special interests are not always things that are socially acceptable or appropriate in general!), etc. all scream ASD to me. Girls are so underdiagnosed and autism can be genetic. Also no 2 people with it are the same so her and your other daughter who is diagnosed may be very different and still both have it!

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I'm sorry I don't mean to sound mean, but I honestly don't get parents like you.

You give your young kids unbridled acces of the internet and you are surprised this happens?

The internet is the virtual equivalent of a huge city like New York. You don't dump your kid all alone in the middle of time square and tell them to be amuse themselves for hours without any supervision. It's dangerous and they can get hurt badly.

The internet is worse. You say her name age and location in her bio are not a big deal, WRONG. Pedos and all kinds of creeps can find her just from that. One picture of her face with your house in the background or some store or land mark and they know what area to look for her. Not to mention the damage groomers can do via the internet without ever meeting IRL which you now unfortunately found out.

Kids will find the most disturbing porn, or the most toxic communities and they do NOT have the mental capacity to process all this or to know what is wrong with it.

Give your kids an old school cell phone and keep them the fuck away from the internet. Especially if you don't know how to set up parental controls on your phones and computers. If you don't know how to do this look for classes on this or organise a talk of an IT expert to explain it all to a group of parents like you.

The internet is a huge toxic cesspool. Don't let your kids play in it.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Master Advice Giver [20]

i think this depends on the kid. she trusted her kid and as others have mentioned, sometimes you can do everything right and there’s still potential for something to go wrong.

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No it does not depend on the kid.

People are much more easily manipulated and influenced than most want to admit to themselves. There is a reason why advertising is such a huge industry. It works.

With all children, they do not have mental maturity nor the knowledge or experience to deal with anything the internet brings.

Keep your kids off the internet.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Master Advice Giver [20]

i agree kids should be taught internet safety and monitored to some extent, but it’s naive to think that just because you can control their electronics at home they wouldn’t have the ability to get that information from other places. being too controlling of your kids will likely push them away and in other directions you’re hoping they don’t go. i may not have kids but i do think that as long as you teach them all you can, it depends on the kid what they’ll do.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [3]

Respectfully, please be hesitant to avoid hospitalizing her over this. She is a child, doing awful things, but it is because that is what she was groomed to do by the POS manipulating her over discord. She is undoubtedly going to be mad and hate you for this for a bit, but the best you can do is let her heal and reorient herself by placing her in SAFE environments to unpack everything. ie, therapy, setting boundaries, trying to reestablish trust, being there to talk to her when she’s ready and letting her know why you had to do what you did. try to focus on the strengths- how much you love her and care for her safety, rather than trying to talk to her too soon about what a bad person the discord individual was (because right now, to your kid, you’re the bad guy taking away this “truth speaker” and thus “enabling pedofila”). distorted thinking can be difficult to handle, and truthfully the best you can do is place her in the right environments to hopefully slowly but surely bring herself out of this.

apologies for the tangent- my point of discouraging hospitalization is that sadly the vast majority are AWFUL, and end up doing more harm than good by breaking trust between you, exposing her to a stressful environment, and making her feel restricted/ even more angry. i’ve been there myself as a kid, and while it was for false reasons/ i was personally not struggling, seeing what goes on inside there… i’m not the most confident it should be a go to in any situation. not when other resources like counseling, community support, etc exist

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Best of luck. You're doing good so far.

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Avid Voter+1 · 1 mo. ago · edited 1 mo. ago

As someone who occasionally partakes in fandom myself I’ve seen more and more of this “minor coded” and “anti proship” kind of crap which has been polluting fandom spaces for a very long time now. Having met and well, been targeted by these people before I can completely see why it’s almost cult like in their thinking, and I believe a lot of teenagers and minors also believe in minor coding, like how a 17 and 18 year old can’t date because they’re not of age; or not understand that the whole thing is fictional and has zero bearing on irl pedophilia. I’ve had a friend I’ve had to tell to just get off Twitter because it was seriously affecting her mental health. Really sorry that things have come to this with your daughter and with fandom spaces in general.

This is really well above my pay grade because what I tend to do online is simply ignore those who go after and attack others for fictional shipping. I block any minor or artist I see with “anti” or “pro ship dni” in their bios and I actively avoid any space about these things. I previously described it as some kind of “moral purity” scenario where everyone has to follow this pure moral code or they get attacked and called a pedophile, helping zero actual victims of pedophilia and degrading those victims of pedophilia as well in my opinion.

As for what made her think this way, I do think those spaces of “anti pedophilia, anti proship” are very echo-chambery, and always placed in some kind of morally superior position “I’m persecuting others for the greater good!” so for an impressionable young teen they don’t think logically and rationally about this and end up in situations like this. It feels very groupthink-y and in spaces like these members are often encouraged to spew vitriol on others, almost in a cult-like atmosphere. I also would question why she thinks it is acceptable to send others death threats for this kind of stuff, it has previously seriously affected my friend’s mental health and I’m very sad it came to this where another irl child was harmed by these threats and words.

Anyways, this is why I don’t think children should be allowed in fandom spaces. I’d probably also encourage you to remove her internet access for a very long time.

To any others, ship who you want, tag and label it, and if you don’t wanna read that stuff, then don’t read it and don’t click on the tag. It’s just that simple. If it wasn’t obvious, sending death threats to those who don’t agree with you isn’t a good idea. And guess what, fiction is fiction for a reason. Nobody is being hurt, pixels and drawings don’t have feelings. The entire point of fiction is to have fictional universes where anything can happen. Actions like this do absolutely nothing to actually stop pedophiles.

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It’s crazy how although I grew up completely unsupervised on the internet as a child, I read stories like this now as an adult and think man I am never letting my future kids do what I was able to do although I’ve turned out fine. Scary stuff.

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The fact that she had depression starting at the age of 12 but you sell her as a normal adjusted child blows me away. As if every kid her age is running around with something as heavy as depression. Or maybe she wasn’t diagnosed and it’s what she calls it and you’ve agreed to it.

When are people going to realize, if grown adults can’t handle smart phones and the internet, surely 14 year olds can’t. I feel bad for parents because they feel guilty if they don’t provide a smart phone for their child by the age of 10 because every other kid has one, but something has got to give.

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Monthly Top 1% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [6]

The average age of puberty is 12. She may be suffering from depression due to her hormones changing so wildly.

Now, we don’t know if puberty caused her depression, but it’s worth noting that it isn’t uncommon for kids to experience depression during this time.

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OP, Despite what other commenters have said, DO NOT TAKE HER TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM!!!

They are not equipped for things like this and especially since your daughter is that young and this concerns pedophilia THEY CAN ABSOLUTELY TAKE HER WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT!!!! They may even think you’re the one grooming her. They can put her on an “involuntary hold”, they’ll put her in a straightjacket and possibly make her ride in a police car, they’ll lock her in a room and won’t let her sleep at any time because they’ll wake her up every 15 minutes. She’ll be deeply humiliated and your relationship with her may not ever recover.

I had a psychotic break when I was 14 because I didn’t react well to my new ADHD meds—I’m 29 now and haven’t had one since. The night we went to the ER—and being treated like a psycho criminal as a little girl who had never so much as turned in a library book late—that was way more traumatizing than anything I went through mentally. I remember reaching out to hug my dad and him pushing me away. He tries so hard to have a relationship with me now but it’ll never happen because I’ll never forgive him for taking me to that ER.

What you need to do, OP, is find is a good CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST, preferably a teen specialist. They’re all well-versed in social media, cyberbullying and all this stuff AND they can let you know if your daughter needs a partial hospitalisation program for teens (and could supply a referral if needed) but DO NOT GO TO THE ER!!!!

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This might be an odd question, but could I have an invite link to the server? I wanna do a little snooping around. I'm genuinely curious what's inside this server.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+3 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [7]

I don’t think that is a great idea, bro. If police are going to get involved. This is pretty serious and might be out of the police jurisdiction. It might need to be taken higher

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Ah, I just wanted to have a look at the server. I wanna talk to this woman.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+3 · 1 mo. ago
Super Helper [7]

Understandable. But believe me, best not to get involved!

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Prolific Commenter+1 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [2]

I think she just made a mistake, guiding her about rights and wrongs would solve the problem. Nil active intervention needed after this I guess

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
Expert Advice Giver [15]

I'm going to touch on what I think are the key issues here:

  • Your daughter does not understand what a pedophile is.

  • Your daughter has been groomed by a cult-like group.

  • Your daughter has issues with depression.

  • Your daughter has real concerns about people being pedophiles.

I think one of the best things you can do for your daughter is to learn about pedophilia, hebophila, and ephebophila, and explain the difference to her. Be very specific about what qualifies each so there are no grey areas. Minor-coded, btw, is when a porn actor is portrayed as a minor. Perhaps explain to her that those kinds of videos help people who are sexually attracted to minors control their urges, and while she may find them abhorrent, it is a much better solution than someone going out and having sex with a real minor, or watching actual child pornography. It's one of those necessary evils.

The culty group and the depression often go hand in hand. Cults prey on people who dont fit the norms of society. Anyone who is different from their peers is a prime target, and children are especially easy to indoctrinate because they just dont logic as well as adults. I think focusing on the cult would be a mistake, and focusing on her mental health, educating her about the things they were talking about by framing it in a way she can understand (how would you feel if you were bullied because people said you were someone you arent), and sharpening up her critical thinking skills will allow her to detach herself from the group and its mentality. Her choosing to detach is the only way to truly end the behavior and the connection.

I think your daughter has genuine concerns about pedophiles, and it makes complete sense when you think about it: she was taught about her body from an early age, clearly knows about sex and sexual attraction, and is the oldest of her siblings. She probably feels she has a duty to protect her younger siblings, as most eldest do, and in her eyes pedophiles are the biggest threat to her siblings, which makes sense to her because who else would want to harm a child? I don't know that there's much you can do about it aside from being aware that her concerns are real, and ensuring you dont attempt to invalidate those concerns, as that will turn her against you (see her calling her dad a pedophile enabler). She probably sees it as her protecting herself, her siblings, and her classmates.

Whatever you do, I hope things work out. Filing a police report is defo the move, but I would tell your daughter about it. She should know just how wrong that group is, and she should know what the police plan to do and what kinds of punishment the server admin and other adults on the server will be looking at. Maybe even take her with you to file the report, so she can really understand, and hear it from the police themselves. Tbh, this is probably FBI territory, though. Which only confirms how messed up it is.

Good luck with all that.

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Prolific Commenter+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [1]

Jesus . Check her internet chats. She made context with an extremist group of pixel defenders.

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pixel defenders

What is that?

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Prolific Commenter+2 · 1 mo. ago
Helper [1]

You just got me when I opened Reddit today. Pixel defenders it’s a joke term for the “anti shipper “ it’s people that get all heated because of fictional characters as if they were real people, they tend to be less than 17 years old.

For example, that girl. They act like if the character drawn in a digital canvas was a real people that will suffer for your “horrible” actions like : shiping them, drawing them in slightly revealing outfit, drawing them in a bad situation, fanfic

They are very prevalent in the animation community recently and it’s awful, you can’t even make a joke of a character that look like a grown ass person without a pixel defender telling you “she/he” is a minor 😐” even if the person it’s 19 and the character in question it’s 17.

They go that far that they will accuse people of pedophile and to be attracted to ACTUAL CHILDREN because you like (for example) a anime character that happens to be under age (and not even like 2-4 years. Literal 17-18 years old or even inmortal characters )

And since most of these characters have digital drawings, composed of pixeles, well, they are “defending “ pixels

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level 4

Just, wow. I had no idea.

Thanks.

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level 1

I'll be honest, you handled this perfectly. As someone who is heavily into fandom interactions on twitter, I see this type of thing all the time and it breaks my heart. Thank you so much for getting the police and fbi involved, since these people (the actual creep that is) are so used to getting away with a slap on the wrist/their twitter account being suspended.

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· 14 hr. ago · edited 13 hr. ago

Wow that's a lot, but I'm very glad that you seem to handle this issue so extremely well and with compassion for your daughter (as well as for the people she and her online friends have harassed of course).

As someone who has watched this kind of Fandom Discourse your daughter got brainwashed into develop, I'm guessing she has/had an EXTREMELY warped view of what "being groomed" refers to? Cause in my experience, antis think it means "being told to accept all fictional stories - including problematic ships - as morally neutral bc It's Just Fiction", because they think depiction of a thing in fiction = endorsement of that thing irl. I've seen a lot of antis saying "proshippers are groomers who are trying to convince kids pedophilia is ok", where they conflate the content warning tag Pedophilia (or any dynamic they think is pedophilic) with having the paraphilia or actual CSA. So, the difficulty of talking them out of that viewpoint lies in them seeing you debating them as you trying to groom them. Which, since they've been told everyone but the Safe Adult is a (proto-)child abuser if they say or do XYZ inconsequential thing, seems perfectly credible to them. After that, anything goes to keep themselves or other kids (as long as these don't show what they perceive as red flags for pedophilia) safe.

In other words, while I really hope your daughter is getting better and just making unexpectedly fast progress, there's also a non-zero chance that she's just going along with it to get her internet privileges back to talk to her online friends again, and sees this whole thing as something like going through conversion therapy bc her personal morals (that she's been told are mainstream and rational) don't align with yours. She's been so deeply indoctrinated that it affected her offline behavior, so this was not just about winning shipwars through bad-faith arguments about how "16/19 is problematic (ship what I ship instead!)". She called her own father a pedophile-enabler. There's no reason to believe that she truly trusts you or her therapist.

Please continue monitoring her internet activities (eta: I'm not suggesting you install a tracker. But I assume you have her social media usernames, and making accounts with a pseud and following her there, just to check her change if heart is genuine, wouldn't even invade her privacy if she is posting publicly on accounts she knows you know about) and watch out for signs that she respects or trusts you less (despite remaining friendly with you), even after she seems all better.

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Monthly Top 5% Karma+2 · 1 mo. ago
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Prolific Commenter+1 · 1 mo. ago
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Oof...

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